Breaking Free of Isolation with Chandler Rogers [2.2]

But internally, I’m having this conflict where, I, I guess I’m failing at that because there’s this part of my life that doesn’t align with that, I guess, right. Was how I thought about it at the time.

Crishelle: Yeah.

Chandler: It was, it was definitely hard. Like I, [00:04:00] I went from a kid who was pretty self-confident to someone who probably still appeared decently self-confident, but internally just was never happy with where I was at.

I think that actually inhibited my ability to develop skills generally around managing stressors in my life and handling emotions. Well, that I think compounded later into more and more stressors that I couldn’t cope with well, and turned back to the thing that was easy to escape, , and, and ease pain from.

Even if I didn’t feel like I was in pain, I think it was, it was hard for me to recognize. I didn’t just feel like I hate my life and I hate myself. I think I was, it was a little bit more subtle where I was just kind of, man, I, I feel like I keep failing. And it was this vicious cycle over and over that was very internal and, and no one really knew about it for a while.

Crishelle: Totally. Oh man. And I feel like, especially when no one knows about it, that shame monster, just

Chandler: Yep.

Crishelle: [00:05:00] makes it so much worse. Cuz you’re like, oh, if they found out, if they knew who I really was and what I’m struggling with, they would hate me.

Chandler: Yeah,

Crishelle: Like, they would, I, as you were describing that, I feel like, feel like when I was growing up, I was, I believed this narrative of, oh, the people that view pornography are in a basement and they’re monsters.

Chandler: Totally.

Crishelle: Like,

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: I, created this villain that

Chandler: Basement pedophile monster. Yeah.

Crishelle: Yeah,

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: But the reality is that , it’s. Not, and, and so I can totally see what you’re saying, where you’re like, I, I learned to hate myself because I thought that I was that horrible person.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: I

Chandler: I couldn’t be happy with other parts of my life that were going well because this one part wasn’t going well enough for me, and it was like, Like I was inhibiting my ability to feel proud or feel successful, or even notice areas in [00:06:00] which I, I might have been growing and accomplishing and feeling satisfied because I was, I was letting this one issue define the overall picture of how happy I felt and if I felt like things were going well, it was about are things going well with not using porn?

Crishelle: Yeah. Oh man, that’s so ouchie and so isolating. And so that’s why I wanna talk about this isolation thing because I’ve, I loved that you, you wanted to break the silence on this because, so my, my story’s more of the betrayal trauma side and just being , so hurt and devastated by, dad’s choices and then some relationships I was in that were super painful.

It just led me to be very hurt, and I remember feeling so alone and so isolated and so stuck in that pain too. And so it’s just interesting, the isolation, no matter what side of the equation you are on, happens to be the worst.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: is is [00:07:00] totally something that happens to us. I remember one day where I was on the hillside at B Y U and I was supposed to be headed to a final or something and I was just sobbing behind a bush and I felt so alone and people are walking past me and I’m like, they have no idea I exist.

, and why do they care about finals? Don’t they know that I’m in so much pain? And it’s so silly, but I that I just remember behi behind that bush and that isolation, it was a physical representation of how I’d felt for years

Chandler: so hard.

Crishelle: being surrounded by people that have no idea that I’m struggling so much am, am crying out for help.

And so I, I imagine that that’s probably what you felt like too.

Chandler: Yeah, totally. And, and I felt like even though I didn’t have my bush right, like I felt like I couldn’t, or I, I wasn’t in touch with my feelings to, to really even know or, or get to that point, maybe. , it, it makes me wonder because I was probably the one walking by that sidewalk, and you [00:08:00] didn’t know it was me at the time feeling the same thing, thinking the same thing, but to other people on that sidewalk, you know, I was just wearing a backpack and going to take my final, and it, it’s just crazy to me because I, I think as I’ve been more open about my story, people who I wouldn’t have guessed, had struggled with this or were feeling so isolated about it.

, have , you know, reached out to me and talked to me, and I, I’m always reminded, which shouldn’t surprise me because I’m on a podcast talking about it and do this for a living now. You know,

Crishelle: Yeah.

Chandler: but it continues to surprise me, like, even if it’s not pornography, there are so many hard things that everyone’s dealing with and our propensity is to keep it in.

And sometimes we might have healthy ways of dealing with it or, or bringing in close people that are a part of our support system. But I, I think as a society, we’re still struggling to normalize the difficult things that are a normal part of life and a normal part of everyone’s life, but are, but are still kind of [00:09:00] hush and like it’s, you know, you have to be ultra, ultra, ultra close to even work up the courage to bring it up and by then the relationship.

This is another thought I have. If you’re only getting to the point where the only person you can break the silence with and get outta your isolation with is someone that close to you. It, it also becomes even scarier because there’s already a relationship and maybe it’s a spouse or a, a person you’re dating or a family member.

And, , I, I think support systems should have people from all different angles. So I’m not necessarily saying that it’s shouldn’t be someone that’s close to you, like a friend or family member, but it can be even more tough, , to. Only have the forum to talk about this as, do I have a friend or family member in my life that I could get outta this isolation with?

That’s, that’s just as scary as thinking about the random person who’s on the sidewalk or behind the bush who may also be going through the same thing. And I, I don’t know. It’s just sad that the, the common story is that it’s not brought out into the open in a safe way [00:10:00] as often as it should.

Crishelle: Amen to that. And I love that you said like I was probably the guy walking past wearing a backpack because the narrative that I told myself forever, and even in that moment as I was like, They don’t even know what pain is . That’s what I was telling myself, which is so dumb because they probably it probably was you, probably was you walking past.

I , maybe not, I have no idea the timing, but the person walking past me was probably hurting just as much in a different, or maybe even the same, similar way as I was in that moment. And I think so often we’re like, ugh. People are so dumb they don’t even under when, if we would just take a second and remember that everyone that we come in contact with, the guy who cuts you off on the freeway, that you’re so angry at the person checking you out that’s taking a while at the grocery store and you’re just like, oh, I’ve gotta get home and get dinner or done.

All of the people that you come into contact with [00:11:00] guaranteed are struggling with something.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: And feel alone in that struggle at some level, if we would remember that. I think it would change everything about the way that we interact with each other, and I

think that it might help us not feel so alone.

Chandler: totally. And, and I think too, the, the powerful thing about having that awareness of others and how they. Might be feeling similar to us, can actually, I think, help us get out of that shame cycle that happens with ourselves and the, the lies that we tell about ourselves. Because I’m sure that, you know, if, if I knew that you were dealing with something as well, I, I, I doubt that I would tell you to measure your success and your happiness the same way that I was doing internally at the time.

And that’s actually for me, like when I, when I first joined a group. I think I was at a point where I realized that [00:12:00] doing it alone just wasn’t gonna work. And I’ve talked to a lot of people that have different experiences deciding to try out a support system, like a group or something. And for a lot of people it’s like a big step.

And that’s also something that I vote should change. And we can do it by talking about how it’s actually, it’s actually not that crazy if you think about it, that. All of that, a support group or like a, a group-based, you know, recovery program. Whatever it is, is, is just people saying, yeah, I’ve realized that doing it alone isn’t the best way to do it.

And maybe like we can help each other do it. I think that’s actually really cool. And often than not, it’s way less scary than most people think it’s gonna be because you find out that they’re not the creepy. Basement pedophiles. And that was my story when I, when I joined my first group and I saw the other guys in my group, it was over Zoom

Crishelle: Mm-hmm.

Chandler: we were getting to know each other, and the, the clinician who was leading the group was kind of guiding us through [00:13:00] different principles and questions and, and I realized like, these guys all have goals and aspirations and, and lives and are pretty normal, was like, I think the word I used in my mind, I was like, oh, they’re kind of normal.

Like, they’re not like what I would’ve expected. And then I realized like, why am I, why am I thinking those things? I think it’s because I have some false notions about myself that because I stayed isolated, I couldn’t break out of, and it was actually so helpful not just to feel less alone, that was part of it, but to help recognize the lies that were happening in my own cognitive processes and, and to be able to start to rewire those as I had opportunities to turn outwards or even just like observe someone else talking through their own process and realizing like, I think I do the same thing and it sure doesn’t make sense when he says it like that, so it may not be correct.

Like that belief. And, and that’s okay. Like I think those, those environments are, I think a key part of, of helping us realize why isolation is [00:14:00] not the best for us often.

Crishelle: Totally. And I, so I love you’re talking about this group experience and I think the group and, and, and was like a accountability group. Like what kind of group was this initially?

Chandler: It was a program for people looking to overcome unwanted pornography habits. It was lds like type of group, but it wasn’t through the church. It was just like a therapist was the one running it over Zoom.

Crishelle: Cool.

Chandler: We met Thursday nights once a week for an hour, and it was just kind of the goal is to give us foundational knowledge and basic skills that were both kind of based in, spiritual, like, you know, God type of how to look at recovery as well as, The psychology and, and neuroscience of , let’s, let’s actually understand what’s happening in our brains and why you’re not evil for looking at porn and why you continue to have urges and why that’s actually not abnormal.

And and how porn isn’t actually the root of the issue. There might be some other things that we need to address and, and build[00:15:00] build some, some better balance in our lives that can help us, you know, manage these things. Just some basic, basic recovery things that. Was in a group setting that I started when I think it was the end of my high school years is when I first started doing that.

Crishelle: That was so awesome. And I mean, there’s like kudos to everyone who had the courage to show up to that group. Right. And because I think, I think it’s so fascinating that there’s so many things that stand in the way of us showing up and actually being vulnerable what it is that we struggle with.

then when we finally do, how freeing it was for you to sit around and be like, whoa, he’s just like me.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: And how instructive it is. Once we sit down and we’re like, I say those same lies and it’s not working for me either. Like how beautiful. How beautiful it is when we can, when we can tear down the walls and we can break the silence that has kept us trapped [00:16:00] for so long. Group. Group in any sense, community in any sense, showing up to your community luncheon and actually talking to the people, whatever it is, right? Showing up can heal you can bring so much peace if you’re willing to. What do you feel like is the biggest thing that stops people from showing up?

Chandler: Hmm. I, I think it really is fear of fill in the blank. Like, I think for some people it’s fear of judgment. Like will people, Bless of me. It could be fear of just the unknown of how are they gonna react? You know, will they blow up? Will they laugh? You know, will, maybe it’ll go okay, but will our relationship be weird after this conversation?

So fear of the unknown. It could be, yeah, fear, fear of rejection, and this person deciding to cut me out of their life. Or just fear of. [00:17:00] I, I think there is almost a, and I’m not the, the neuropsychology expert, so this, this is just a right. But I feel like there is, you know, the body has a physical reaction to fear.

That much I do help. I spend enough time talking with lots of therapists, the, the body and the brain are not disconnected. And so when we feel unsafe, when we talk about anxiety or stress, there are physiological responses to that, I think there can be. An element of just being so nervous about what might happen, that our bodies feel unsafe and we feel like we can’t have that conversation.

And, and it may not be because we actually think we’re unsafe in our brains, but because it just feels like such an untalked about topic, that it must be unsafe to talk about it. And I think that I, I, I don’t know. Like I really, I really think that for most people it gets less scary if someone else.

Has chosen to open up to you about something, and maybe you’ve already had that experience, and I would invite you to think back to an experience where has there [00:18:00] ever been anyone that you’ve had a relationship with who has opened up to you about something difficult for them? And even if you felt heard, or even if it was hard, or even if it did kind of complicate the way that you saw them or, or how to process that information.

It’s probably likely that you didn’t just pick up the nearest stone and throw it at them, or , you know, decide that that person was completely terrible. , I, I think as humans, that we’re often more compassionate with others than ourself. And if we imagine , you know, I, I probably wouldn’t excommunicate one of my friends from my life if they told me they were dealing with something hard.

So it might be safe for me to go to one of my friends and share them, share with them what I’m going through. And even if they don’t do the best job at taking it well, I think also detaching from the expectations of how will the other person that I’m breaking outta isolation with do their part and just purely think about it as the exercise of you choosing to open up.[00:19:00]

And, and choose to be less isolated is healing in and of itself. Choosing to break outta isolation regardless on how helpful the other person was in receiving it, I think can drastically lower the scariness level and realize like, You know, pornography is something hard, but there’s, there’s a million other hard things that I would say are like hard things are hard things.

Like, that’s one thing that me and my wife talk about a lot. She’s, she’s told me , I’m grateful that we’ve learned how to work through this topic early on in our relationship because we’re gonna have other trials. And , why, why do we think that one trial is necessarily more threatening than another?

Just because maybe , , we have these subconscious beliefs about, I don’t know from religion or certain things that some sins are worse than others. And I’m not saying that’s not true, but I think that trials are trials

Crishelle: Pain is pain like I think that’s so profound.

Chandler: It’s like all humans have it. It all humans have it. We need to be more gentle with [00:20:00] others in our as we’re more gentle with ourselves. We’ll realize that bringing others into the equation is no different because they’re like, I have pain too. You know? And I think that was actually helpful for bringing my wife into the picture when I first opened up to her.

We’ll have to hear her perspective. Another episode. She can make it tonight, but I think , not just dropping the news on her and breaking out of isolation by telling her, Hey, I’ve got a problem, and just letting her deal with it. But instead sharing with her my journey in terms of what I’ve learned, what’s been hard about it and why, why I never actually really wanted this in my life whatsoever.

What, how I’ve approached healing the things that I feel like I’ve, I’ve really developed and grown throughout the process and, and what I’m still learning and what I still need to figure out. So I think she really found it helpful in realizing that I wasn’t just opening my mouth to, to say, Hey, I’m struggling, but I was actually wanting her to understand what it’s been like.

Because I think she was able to have way more [00:21:00] empathy and it wasn’t just like a big bomb. It was still hard, right? But it was , it was a conversation, not a, Hey, can I just blurt out this hard thing?

Crishelle: Yeah. No, that’s so beautiful. And I think, I think you highlighted a couple of things that I think are really profound and one of those is that, when we really, when we really get to know someone’s story and we really understand who they are and what they’ve gone through I think all we feel and see and experience is compassion really. And, and I think in, in the world that we live in, that’s not often our first response because we think we, see someone’s comment or someone’s post or someone’s story and we’re like, oh, I now know everything about you. And, and, and we jumped to 10,000 conclusions and we feel we know everything when. I think it’s so important to remember that there’s so much more to each one of [00:22:00] us than one isolated event or one

Chandler: Yeah,

Crishelle: struggle, or one isolated right?

Chandler: totally. Yeah. I think it does get easier to. To stop isolating ourselves so much when we almost care a little bit less about trying to fix this, this one problem. I, I made a lot more progress when I started to learn how to accept that I was enjoying and having success and growth in other areas of life while I was still figuring out this problem over here and that it wasn’t, that this problem over here had to be solved before I could.

Really fully enjoy everything else that was going on in my life. And it didn’t mean that I didn’t care anymore. I, I think that’s maybe a tricky balance sometimes for people, but it wasn’t apathy, it wasn’t that I was just like, don’t care if I mess up. You know? It was like, I’m not a screw up and my life doesn’t suck if I’m struggling or it’s taking [00:23:00] years, you know, to figure out how to heal from this, from this unwanted habit.

And I think that that level of empathy actually made it way less scary to be like, well, if I’m not defining my entire self worth about it, it’s not that huge of a deal to open up to a person if I feel relatively safe about it. Even if they might feel like it’s a big deal, I’ve learned my relationship with this is, it doesn’t, it doesn’t need to be such a big, , You know, Ooh, Chandler has struggled with this before.

It’s like, yeah, I have. And a lot of people have too. And that’s okay. I’ve learned a lot from this. I’m actually feel like I’m a way better person because I’ve chosen to tackle this and I’m not perfect. And that’s okay. And so when I think about it that way, just that little role play I just did, you can almost feel how it’s a little bit more casual, but it’s not apathetic.

And I feel like

Crishelle: Right.

Chandler: developing that type of mindset, you know, it’s gonna look different for everyone, I think can make it easier to find ways to. Get connected and, and that’s really the antidote we talk about getting out of isolation. We, we should [00:24:00] also mention connection is really what we’re talking about.

And having these real, vulnerable opportunities to build connection.

Crishelle: totally. Oh, I love that. As you were, as you were describing that, I, I u it reminded me of when I used to work in a rehab for, specifically for drugs and alcohol, I. And something I so admired about that community and about so many of the people that came through our program is that they were so willing to own part of them and to own the part of them that struggled.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: And, and, and that’s something that they do in aa. They, they say their name and they say, and I’m alcoholic. You

Chandler: Mm-hmm.

Crishelle: And, and I think that that can be taken to an extreme that cannot be helpful.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: think that it’s profoundly beautiful what they’ve created with AA and ca and, and a

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: all of those, right?

It’s, it’s profoundly beautiful because people [00:25:00] are willing. To own who they are, and they also know that they’re going to be loved and accepted in that group. Right. And I feel like there needs to be a pa like Pornography Anonymous, and then I learned about Relay and oh my gosh, that’s what this is. This is so great. Your app that you’ve created is so awesome because what you’ve done is you’ve created an app where you know you can show up and everyone on there. Knows what it’s been like, has been there and is with you in the trenches. And that’s what AA is, ? You show up to a meeting and you know that everyone’s gonna be so stoked you’re there. You know, they’re gonna be like,, and how many years or how many days, or how many hours do you have under your belt?

I’m with you. Right? And it’s the coolest community that they have. And that’s what you’ve created with Relay. And I love it and I am here for it and I am. The biggest fan because we all need, we all need a [00:26:00] space where you can show up and people are just there to help you

Chandler: Totally.

Crishelle: know that they’re there to help you.

Okay, so enough of me given the preview, tell me about Relay and tell me what it is

Chandler: Well, I, I think you did a great job. I mean, the phrase in the trenches was actually one of the very first things that we had talked about with Relay is, how can we make it easier? For people that are in the trenches, you’re in this trench way over there, actually fighting the same battle and thinking about the same thing.

And I’m over here in my trench, but my trench is one person. How do we make this trench like we’re all side by side and, and moving in the same direction together? If we’re in the same together, we can probably, if we’re digging the trench, I’m just assuming we’re digging, we could probably dig faster if we’re all digging our own individual holes or if we’re trying to get outta the holes.

Yes.

Crishelle: You know, I think there’s a lot of truth to that.

Chandler: But, but yeah, I mean, really with Relay it, it’s an app that’s designed to be the tool that helps people do [00:27:00] recovery smarter, largely by breaking isolation, making it easy to have effective accountability. And meaningful connection with others in the same boat. So we, we, essentially, what we do is if you don’t have a group already, You can come in and we will match you with seven or eight other people who are in the same boat working on overcoming pornography or whatever it is.

We have other groups now for eating disorders, for alcohol, for smoking. But if you’re, if you’re here and I’m, I’m here to overcome pornography, it’ll match you with a group people of, you know, roughly similar demographic and goals. And what we do is we allow you to stay as anonymous as you want. So there’s no , In-person meetings or, or Zoom meetings.

We’re trying to find this balance of being really approachable for people who want a way to Essentially start out and not have that scariness factor coming from a place of isolation. So you can put your real name if you want, but you can also, you know, choose a pseudonym, something that isn’t your real name.

You don’t have to put a real [00:28:00] profile picture. So it’s all asynchronous where seven days a week through the chat-based group section of the platform. The app will essentially help our group find ways to stay connected and be accountable by sharing different ideas, having different guided conversation prompts.

We’re actually working on adding a bunch of new content modules that groups can work on together. Almost like a, you know, whenever you have 10 minutes, you can go through a mini lesson and then have some discussion with that just over. Chat with your group. But, but the real goal is we wanna make it easier to have a support system seven days a week with people who understand, who are in the same boat

Crishelle: I love this. I love this. I love this. I love because, so like my friends would come home from group or we’d come back from group and they’d be like, oh man, I felt so good at

group. And

then like the next the next week, like super struggling, right? I’m like, I wish we could like help you have

Chandler: originally I was just thinking about people who were already in [00:29:00] groups. It wasn’t for people who were too scared to get a group, which is the larger majority of people. It’s if you already have a group. This is how I felt.

Yeah. I’m on a high, just like you just said, the other six days of the week I slump back to my lazy habits. Or it’s just tough to stay connected when you’re not in the same room. And we would try different chat platforms and make our own systems for every night we’re gonna text these three things and and it would always fizzle out and it was frustrating cuz I knew that we were missing out on helping each other be successful and.

Yeah, that’s, I don’t think it needs to be that way. That was the vision from the beginning is what if a tool made it easier to help each other to share the load so that we all are able to progress more effectively whether you have a group or not already, like if you just want more than the group you already have, or if you, this is your very first thing.

It’s designed for you.

Crishelle: Oh, I love this. I love this because, Because it’s a safe space. It’s a safe [00:30:00] space for you to come and all of the time to connect, to actually connect with

Chandler: Yeah,

Crishelle: And I think that that is so cool. And I think it’s something that searching for. That’s why we like Instagram we like

somehow

Chandler: want connection.

Crishelle: when we’re actually not.

Chandler: Yep.

Crishelle: Right. But want that like, and Instagram’s just one example, like be real

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: Facebook. Fill in the blank, right? Like, we want to feel successful, we want to feel connected, we want to be understood. We want, we want all of those things. We want to be heard and relay. You’ve created that space specifically for people who are working together towards a common goal, and I love that.

Who

Chandler: Well, I,

Crishelle: that?

Chandler: I just feel like it’s it’s something that I wish I had, like, that’s, that’s really why we started working on it, is. Even once I found a group, which that took way too long, going, going to a group also gave me the image of it’s probably in the basement of a church, you know, with a bunch of old dudes.

[00:31:00] And and it’s scary, you know, cuz I’m just this teenager, young adult or whatever. And, and, yeah. Anyways, , I think with, with Relay, people have commented on how it just feels like a much easier place to start out if you’re still, you know, fi feeling those natural fears of like, yeah, it is. A little different and scary to be able to talk about it.

But I think a lot of people have found that it’s not just the, the space to talk that they find helpful. After a little bit of time they find that it’s really cool because we have different built-in mechanisms to help, for example, manage your stressors and triggers or keep track of your self-care plan to stay in a more healthy, balanced just state as a human being and, and be able to manage.

You’re healing holistically and you can kind of see oh, looks like dLAN checked in yesterday. And he was feeling kind of stressed. I know he mentioned last week that, you know, things have been tough at work or you know, with his girlfriend, I’m, I’m gonna reach out and see how things are going because we have that shared visibility.

Or I can see that, you know, [00:32:00] Joe

Crishelle: Hmm.

Chandler: been doing his goal that he said he was gonna do. He doesn’t have to even, you know, share that cuz he opted into some transparency and we can help each other. Be like, Hey, like, let’s all make sure we get in our, you know, our goals today. So those type of things I feel like are , how can we as humans just simply help each other move towards where we want to go better instead of being so personal about it all?

You can still, still stay anonymous or safe, but let’s do it better together is, is the hope and yeah.

Crishelle: I love that. I love that so much and I love how approachable and how like accessible. Relay is and how it toll. I was like, man, you know, I can think of like five times today where I probably would’ve benefited from that

My two

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: is

losing it and my seven month old is screaming because she wants more food and time for dinner, and I’ve [00:33:00] had it, you know?

And I’m like, Ooh, I’m feeling so stressed and I wanna run away. Like I. I think, and I’m just using that silly

Chandler: That’s when you throw a red flag in relay, like,

I’m not doing well. Just to let you know with one button that, that sounds like what you needed.

Crishelle: Yes, yes. That would’ve been very helpful. I, I think the red flag, you know, got delivered to my husband in a very different way But like, so we all have those

Chandler: Totally.

Crishelle: and we, and what I needed was, I needed someone just. support me and, and I know every single one of you listening has had a moment today where you needed more support, where you wanted more support, and maybe you had it and maybe you didn’t.

And what Relay can be for you is, is. Maybe some more support to help you, whether you had the support or not. It can be a place where you find more support or you find the support that you’ve desperately been [00:34:00]

Chandler: Yeah,

Crishelle: So where can people find

Chandler: It’s available on iPhone and Android on the app Store. It just search relay, improve together. The website is www dot join relay app if you wanna learn more information and just kind of, See more details before diving in.

That’s how you can find it. And I, I would also say please feel free to reach out personally if, you know, we we’re talking about how hard it is to break outta isolation if you’re still nervous about the idea of, joining a relay type group. The whole reason I did this is because I talked to too many other people, including myself, who took so long to realize that isolation is just not worth it.

And. I would invite you, just please reach out to me. I would love to talk to you over email. So my email’s, Chandler join relay.app. I’m sure we could throw that in the notes.

Crishelle: I’ll, throw all of these things into the show notes. And, if anything from this has resonated with you, listeners, if you’re like, man, I’m really [00:35:00] struggling to feel connection, join Relay, reach out to someone, text your friend. I guarantee, oh my gosh, this for years and I do this and it helps me.

But I’m like, man, if I’m really struggling, I’m like, who do I know? And I just tried to pause and think for a second who do I know who’s

also struggling

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: Literally every time I do that, I think of at least three people that I can right then reach out and just be like, Hey, how are you?

It fills my cup to reach out and connect with them. You don’t have to join Relay. I recommend it. I don’t recommend things lightly, but I definitely recommend it. Take the time to reach out. Take the

Crishelle: time to connect.

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: Take the time to end the courage, to take action and, and break free of the isolation that you’re feeling because it is so worth it.

Remember, The [00:36:00] person walking past you wearing the backpack that looks like they’re having the best day of their life and they just got an Aon their final probably is

struggling

Chandler: Yeah.

Crishelle: when you’re, , sitting behind that bush losing it. Like I was. they probably were, and I wish, you know, I, that probably wasn’t the time.

Like I was so blotchy and red and sobbing, I, I wish. That in that moment, I would’ve remembered that I wasn’t alone, even though I felt so alone. And that’s what I remembered months later when I started coming out of it. And when I had the courage to tell more people and ask for more help, and, and that’s, that’s why I was so excited to have this conversation

with each other,

because

everyone

needs this.

Chandler: Yeah, we, we have to help. Change how, how our norm is as a society, the norm is to keep it in. And, and I love the tip of, you know, maybe if we’re not ready to just connect in terms of [00:37:00] talking about what we’re dealing with, thinking of how we can help someone around us and asking them, creating a space for them to be vulnerable with us can bring us some of that connection and bring us courage to be vulnerable too.

There’s always people who need. Need that, and you don’t have to be perfect or not in pain

Crishelle: Oh,

Chandler: to turn outwards and do that. That’s, that’s the key. It’ll help you.

Crishelle: so well said. And so true.

Thank you so much, Chandler. Thanks for your time, and we hope you have a great day.

Chandler: Awesome. Thank you.

Crishelle: I tried the relay app and I love it. It’s beautiful. The daily, check-ins the prompts that invite you to pause and self reflect and especially the community and support with a team who is in the trenches with you. It’s way more approachable and affordable than group therapy.

I’m thrilled to launch our first ever sponsorship with relay because this app is the perfect place for you to find the support you so desperately want.

If you are ready to break [00:38:00] the silence and find your own support group, use the link in the show notes to sign up for relay. Plus by using our link, you are directly supporting this podcast and helping us to continue to break the silence. Also included in the show notes is Chandler’s email. If you want to reach out to him directly and a link to share your questions, comments, and story with us.

Keep breaking the silence. My friend. You are not alone.

Reach 10 is a 501(c)3 nonprofit.